Looking at this issue from the perspective of a small heating and cooling contractor selling and installing ducted split systems, it seems to me that there is a lot of confusion about this issue. Natural refrigerants sound great but a small company like mine selling them to my customers against the overwhelming opposition would be like peeing in to a hurricane. There needs to be set guidelines from an independent expert clearly laying out the pro’s and cons, do’s and dont’s. At the moment quite frankly there is a lot of bullshit being spoken by both sides and until the basic truth comes out with set safety guidelines i dont think anyone has a hope in hell of selling hydrocarbons to the general public

the cause will not go away with
wrecking yards just saying the ac had no gas or builders or sparkies just cutting pipes not even undoing flare nuts

Gary highlights an important point - although there are a couple of manufacturers of domestic and small commercial AC systems using hydrocarbons that have or soon will have systems available, there’s not much choice or volume available yet.

With the certainty of high prices for high global warming potential refrigerants, the ball is now clearly in the manufacturers’ court to pursue the genuinely climate friendly technology solutions. Consumers will increasingly demand the highest environmental standards, and there is money to be made in supplying highly efficient natural refrigerant systems.

There certainly is a pressing need for authoritative and accessible guidelines, codes of practice and standards the industry is working to develop and review these. Training courses and materials in the use of hydrocarbons and CO2 have been developed and are in use, ensuring the next generations of industry professionals are familiar with their use.

As well as improved guidelines for industry, better public understanding of the environmental impacts of refrigerants is also needed. With companies such as Coca-Cola, Unilever and Tesco leading the way in commercial refrigeration, when more players in the air con industry start to show similar leadership, installers will be able to provide a better green choice to their customers.

Well well look at this the tree hugging hippy and the AC industry

Surprise Surprise your entry is on the Blog I do not appreciate you bring my mother into it but that only reflects badly on you. This blog was set up to give our industry a platform for everyone to be heard even you.

Well, well ‘anonymous’, refrigerant choice effects all of us in the industry, and I’m sure readers would love to hear what you really think. However, if you do find the courage to chime in again, you might find your views will enjoy greater credibility if instead of shooting the messenger you start playing the ball, not the man?

As an industry, were reaping what we’ve previously sown. When refrigerants reach $200.00 a kilo, try explaining your lack of pressure and vacuum testing procedures, when the charge has been lost out of the 3/4″ suction line flare nut. In the past, the contracting industry itself has been expected to curb leakage when it makes a swodge of money out of re-charging. Leakage prevention early warning technology is feasible, but getting it to the end user via the established industry is a real challenge. Whilst I’m yet to be convinced that direct expansion hydrocarbon systems are the way to go,someone will hit the jackpot by developing 8KW stackable HC chillers.

Hi, we have units avaiable now on HCs R290, these have designed to Australian standards, and have just been passed to be sold in Qld, by the Department of Mines and Energy.

We now can sourse Air Cooled Chillers from 8kw ro 180kw. Chilled water fan coils units.

Because of the Refrigerant restrictions (LEL) we have also developed a mini chiller (C 3.3kW H 3.4kW) one indoor and one outdoor, for use in small rooms eg, Mining Camp Donkers, under ground mining modules etc.

We have been selling HCs systems for 18 months now.

What a great refrigerant, efficient when it is in a unit designed and manufactured for it with all safeties required.

We supply our units with Dry Nitrogen charge and ask for people to pressre test first and then Vac to 1000 microns to check No leaks.

R290 the Environmentally Safe Refrigerant.

Benson Airconditioning is now selling to some parts of the World from Australia, with units operating on HCs. Feel free to contact us is you want to be apart of the future now.

HCs room leak detectors are also available.

Bensons A/C,
It would be more appreciated if your comment was more informative rather than just trying to get a free plug. I have allowed your comment because I strongly believe in your right to be heard not like the lip service that some of the industry trade journals give (now I will get off my soap box).
PS I

[...] else? For readers who just can’t get enough of this stuff, Brent suggest this blog post, a paper called “F For Forgotten? Why Potent Industrial Greenhouse Gases Need More [...]

George (Pie)1&1 make 2 but you have made it 3 your a born leader keep up your great work you must have a 3rd eye,cant wait for your next move ,your so advanced in your thinking.

Nice post u have here Added to my RSS reader

[...] for wide coverage of all Kyoto gases, however as outlined in the Fluorolobby Furphies article at http://blog.pioneerair.com.au/?p=115 the fluorocarbon industry attempted to convince the Government to exclude HFCs. Here

I am sorry that I must remain anonymous, but want to have my say too. I have seen over the years a transition away from refrigerants like Sulphur Dioxide, Methyl Chloride, “processed freon” and now Freon 12, and I see the early signs of the demise of 134A. Each of these gases at the time was seen to be appropriate for public use. Don’t tell me that SO2 was not dangerous. ALL pressurised gases are dangerous, but we thought that they were controllable. History has shown our mistakes and we as a professional group are marching with the times and hopefully will come up with a suitable long term replacement. I do not believe that this will happen within the time frames nominated by our leaders. But since this is a place for people to get on their little hobby horses, here is mine. I cannot understand why people insist on so-called pressure or vacuum testing when the maximum pressure difference possible to achieve is about 15 psi or 100 odd kPa. You wouldn’t even look for leaks on a wheelbarrow tyre at that pressure. Anyway, from my observations, very few Refrigeration Mechanics on the road even have a suitable gauge for measuring decent vacuums. THE ONLY WAY TO PRESSURE TEST IS WITH A POSITIVE PRESSURE AT LEAST EQUAL TO THE CONDENSING PRESSURE. The purpose of evacuating is for moisture removal. The only reason a vacuum of 1000 microns or less is chosen is because that is roughly the pressure water boils at when the temperature is about 23 degrees C.
Moving right along, there are many applications when HC refrigerants could be considered relatively safe, and there are more than just a few refrigerators in Australia using it. The potential problem will arise because the average Fridgie is unaware of the type of gas he is dealing with. There must be at least a different type of fitting so that we will have our attention drawn to it when we fit gauges to the system. Labels are easy to misinterpret and sometimes go missing, and sadly many of our colleagues simply do not know what the numbers mean. Further, these refrigerators should be clearly marked on the outside so that our firefighters will know what they are potentially dealing with. Stores and residences using hydrocarbon refrigerants should also be registered with the fire services for the same reason. Yes, I believe that HC refrigerants are efficient effective refrigerants, but never never ask me to have them installed in my home. It is my opinion that the risk is just a little too great. When the propellant from a can of whipped cream escaping can blow the door off a refrigerator when the thermostat makes or breaks, I thank God that I was not standing in front of the refrigerator. Please do not insult me or the families of those poor souls in New Zealand by saying that it was a unique accident. Yes I have worked with HC refrigerants. Yes petrol stations are users (probably unknowing) of refrigerators with HC refrigerants, and yes it is possible to get reasonable performance by retro-fitting 1343a into one of these little gems, but just try to find someone to recommend this course of action.
So much for my little hobby horse. Now all we need to do is teach fridgies that splashing some soap over a joint is not a leak test. They must actually look at each joint from all directions to find a leak after the soap is there, and sadly I don’t think that is quite good enough either. Long live the real leak detector.

Your information is very useful and powerful for home improvement.

Great post! You have a great knowledge of this subject. Air Conditioning and refrigeration need strict guidelines. The EPA is setting those and we have no problem following them. I am all in favor of the energy efficient equipment. They are more expensive but our customers appreciate the fact that it saves them money on their power bill and saves the earth.

Hello!
Very Interesting post! Thank you for such interesting resource!
PS: Sorry for my bad english, I’v just started to learn this language
See you!
Your, Raiul Baztepo